编者按：2016nian3yue1ri，zhongguo《fanjiatingbaolifa》zhengshishishi，jujinyijingguoquleqinianshijian。cengbeirenweishi“sishi”he“jiawushi”dejiatingbaolishijian，yiduwanquanzhebiyuwuyanzhixiadebaoli、zhengzhayutongku，zaiguoqudeqinianlisihuzhengmanmanzourugonggongshiye，womenyiciyouyiciguanzhuhetoushenhulianwangtaolunyuhuzhu，danbaolideyinyingrenglongzhaozaiwushujiatingzhishang，wushucishangyan、zhongyanshenzhizaidaijijianchuandi。womenzuode，haiyuanyuanbugou。

meitiyinggairuhetantaojiabao？duijiabaodegonggongjierudaohezhongchengdu，cainengduishouhaizhetigongsuoxudebaohu？shehuigonggonghuayuzaitaolunjiabaoshi，younaxieyouyidehuoxiayishidegainianhunxiaoyubianjiemohu？“nvrenyehuidananren”deshuofayunanxingbaolixiangbi，weihehaowuduichengyiyikeyan？nanxingdebaolishitianshengdema，qibenzhishiyizhongzhanyouyuma？weihezuoweishihaizhedenanxinghuiqingxiangyujiangzijimiaoshuweiyigeshouhaizheni？zheixieyiwen，yeshiribenshehuixuejia、dongjingdaxuemingyujiaoshoushangyeqianhezisuoguanzhuhehaoqide。

zaiheribenlinchuangxinlixuejiaxintianxiaoyezideduihuazhong，shangyeqianhezishuo，“duidvdefenxiyueshishenru，jiuyuehuidechuzheiyangdejielun：zaiyibanxingde‘nanziqigai’he‘ai’degainianzhong，doubaohanzhezhipeiyuzhanyoudeguannian，‘dalaopodenanrenhebudalaopodenanrenzhongjianbucunzaigeduan，yemeiyouchayi’。neime，nandaozhiyoujisuoyounanrenqushi，cainengchedifangfandvma？zheijiuxiangzuzhiyongyoujunshililiangdemeiguoshiyongwuqiyiyang，shijuebukenengshixiandeshiqing。‘shenshidenanren’yu‘shenshidejundui’shixiangtongdebeilun。”

dv，bianshidomestic violence，zhongwenzhongduiyingdecihuishijiatingbaoli，erzairiyuzhonghaimeiyouyiyu。tayuxintianguanyujiatingbaolideduihua，zhengshiyuzheigequeshaoyiyudeyingyusuoxie。weishenmebunengyongshidangderiyucilaimiaoshuzhangfudebaolini？zheizhongyanjiuzhededaimanyushehuideqingshi，huoxuyezhengshuomingleweishenmejiatingbaolidewentiyizhizaiyinbidejiaoluoyanxuqiannian，daoxianggengcankudexiongsha，yedaoxiangdazhongduizheiyiwentidewuzhihuoqujie。

zaizhongguo《fanjiatingbaolifa》shengxiaoqizhounianzhiji，jiemianwenhua（id：booksandfun）congshangyeqianhezihexintianxiaoyezideduihuaji《shenweinvxingdexuanze》zhongjiexuanleyouguanjiatingbaolideneirong。tamentandebujinjinshiribennvxingdezaoyuheribenshehuidebuzu，gengshicongxingbie、xinliheshehuixuegenyuanshangduiyuliangxingjianbaoliyuquanliguanxidepouxi。

01 日语中没有译语的DV

信田 worenweiyong“jiatingneibaoli”huo“nvedai”biaoshulaizizhangfudebaoli，zheizhongxingweibenshenjiuhenyouwenti。yinwei“jiatingneibaoli”zheigeciganggangchuxianshi，danchunyongyubiaoshuqingchunqiweichengnianrenduifumushizhanbaoli。

上野 yebunengshuocheng“zhangfudebaoli”ma？

信田 buxing。yidanshuochu“zhangfudebaoli”，duzhekenenghuijiang“fumunvedaihaizi”he“zhangfunvedaiqizi”dengtongqilai。wodekanfashi，fumuduihaizidebaoli、haiziduifumudebaoli、zhangfuheqinminanxingduinvxingdebaoli，sanzhebixumingquequfenkailai。woshizheiyangxiangde：yongnvedaihuojiatingneibaolilaibiaoshunanrenoudaqizidexingwei，huilingtadejiahaizhexingtunse。

上野 keshizhanzaiyuyandejiaodukan，zhijieshiyongyingyusuoxie，shizaishiriyudebeiai。zheizhongzhinengyongpianjiamingbiaojiyingyufayindexianshi，zhendetairangrenxixule。weishenmejiubunengyongshidangderiyucilaibiaoshuni？

信田 zhengyinweimeiyoushidangdecihui，tacaihuibeixianchengde“jiatingneibaoli”he“nvedai”dengcihuishoubian。weiheyizhimeiyourenyongriyucilaitihuantani？

上野 zheishiyanjiuzhededaiman。ribendvfangfanfadezhengshimingchengshi《fangfanpeiouzhebaolijibaohushouhaizhexiangguanfalv》，sucheng《dvfangfanfa》。baoshedouyouneibuyongyuji，zhidaozuijin，“sekuhara”caizhongyudengshangneibenjizi。zaicizhiqian，tadebiaoshubingbutongyi，youdexiezuo“xingsaorao”，youdexie“ezuoju”，houlaicaicheng“sexual harassment”，suoxiewei“sekuhara”。

信田 kanlainvxingfalvzhuanjiabixuyaochuangzaoyigezhuanmenyongyubiaoshunanxing，yejiushizhangfuduiqizibaolideciyu。

上野 yanjiuzheyizhiyilaidoubadvfanyicheng“laizizhangfuhuolianrendebaoli”。zheishimuqianribenliutongdeweiyiyiyu，haiyizhiba“lianren”yesuanzailimian。er《dvfangfanfa》dezhengshimingchengshenzhizhixiele“peiouzhe”。nvxingzhuyizheduicijinxinglepipan，renweifalvzhikaolvleyihunrenshi。qishibunengloudiao“laizilianren”。

02 公共介入是否可能

上野 刚才你说的两个案例（第一个案例是2002年的横滨事件，妻子无法忍受丈夫的 DV，带着孩子逃回娘家。丈夫追到妻子娘家，杀害了妻子的父母和孩子，并将妻子带回。第二个案例是2002年的群马事件，儿童援助中心保护了遭受父亲暴力的孩子，并从孩子口中得知母亲也是DV受害者，于是将母子一同保护。丈夫见妻子被人带走，于是怀恨在心，要搞一件大事，就绑架并杀害了一名高中女生），doushuyudianxingde“hejiesharen”。nanrenweilezhuihuitaozoudenvren，weileyuzhihejieersharen。zheizhongxingweibujinxianyufuqizhijian，shishihunyin、tongju、lianrenyeyiyang。shuobailejiushijuebufangguoneigetaozoudenvren。yuqirangtapaole，burugancuijiangqishahai。hejiesharenshiyixingjianxiongshaanzhongzuichangjiandeleixing。erqiejihuquanshinanshanv，henshaoyoufanguolaideanli。

信田 suiranjihuquanshinanshanv，dantabingmeiyoubeidingyiweinanxingsharen。

上野 haiyou“chugui”zheigeciyeyiyang。yongyubenshenyijingbeifuyuleshehuixingbie，“nanxing”chenglemorensheding。yinweinvxingjiaruchuguishichanghaishiyigexindeshehuixianxiang。

shuodaohejiesharen，nvxingfaqidehejiesharenjihuwukexiangxiang。suiranbunengduanyanwanquanweiling，danjiushibutaikeneng。nvxingsharenduoshuyinweisanjiaoguanxidengchiqingjiuchan，tamenbuhuishalizijierqudenanxing，fandaoqushagouyinlenanrendenvxing。

youcikejian，nan、nvliangxingshifeiduichengde。worenwei，“hejiesharen”yizhishigeshehuixingbiefeiduichengdeyongyu。neime，nigangcaishuodelianggeanli，genbiedeyoushenmebutongzhichuma？

信田 nvfangfumuhehaizibeinanfangshahaidehengbinshijianzhong，younvxingzhongxindecanyu。qunmashijianzeyouertongyuanzhuzhongxincanyu。liangqianzimingmingdouyougonggongjieru，duishouhaizhedebaohuquemeiyoushangshengdaokekaodechengdu。jiusuandadaoleyidingchengdu，zheizhongshihoukaolvdaohejiesharendekenengxing，worenweihaixuyaoyoufalvdecanyu，xianzhijiahaizhedexingdong。

上野 “gonggongjieru”shixintiannvshiyizhizaitichangdexingdongba。neime，jiujingyaogenjushenmefalvjinxingjieruni？nigangcaishuodeyinggaishiyufangxingyueshudefaliba。

信田 wodeyisishi，buyaoquqiangxingyueshu，keyiqiaomiaoliyongzhangfuxiangjianqizideyuqiu。ruguozhangfuwen：“nipingshenmebawohelaopohaizigelikai？”womenkeyishuo：“nihenxiangjianfuren，shima？”ranhou，tichuzaiyidingtiaojiandejichushangrangtajiandaoqizi。biru“bixuyoudisanfangjieru，buyunxuniyulaopohaizidandujianmian”。youru：“womenzheibianwendao，furenzhisuoyitaochulaishiweileduobilaizini，yejiushitazhangfudebaoli。qingwenduizheizhongbaoli，niyoushenmexiangfa？”ranhoushedingyigeqixian，zairu：“sangeyuezhihou，keyitigongyigejihui，zaidisanfangjierudeqingkuangxia，rangniyufurenjianmian。”shidvdejiahaizheyouyigegaiguozixindechengxu。

上野 muqian，chulejingshenbingrenqiangzhiruyuandezhidu，yiqieshehuiyuanzhudoubixuzaidangshizhezizhushengaodejichushangzhankai

信田 danshidvdewentizaiyu，nengfoudengdaodangshizhezizhushengao。

上野 zaibaohushouhaizhezheifangmian，dangshouhaizhezaoshoulepangrennanyixiangxindenvedai，quebuduirenherenzizhushengaoshi，nirenweidisanfangyinggaibeifuyujierudequanli，gaozhita“nishoudaolejibuhelideduidai，yinggaijiangqirendingweishanghai，bingmashanglikaizheili”ma？

信田 这应该是做不到的。

上野 duiba。suoyibaohushouhaizhedeqiantishiyaoyouzizhushengao。jiahaizhegaiguozixindechengxu，yexuyaoyoujiahaizhedezizhushengaoba。

信田 danshijiahaizhebingbujubeidangshizhexing，suoyibuhuizizhushengao。

上野 weilejiandaoqizi，ziranxuyaobenrentichu“woxiangjianqizi”。disanfangbingbuhuizhuanchengzhaoshangmenqu，duitashuo“nishibushihenxiangjianfuren”。

信田 danggonggongjigoujieruhou，zhangfulisuodangrandihuiqutousuqizixunqiubangzhudejigou。zhangfubuxiwangqizihehaizitaoli。zheizhongshihou，nandaobushitadiyiciyi“dangshizhe”shenfenchumiandejihuima？ruobuchencijihuidaorujiahaizhegaiguozixindechengxu，jinhouleisideshijiankongpahuibuduanzengduo。

上野 haiyouyizhongzuofa，jiushizaibaohushouhaizhedeneiyikecaiquxingshijieru。huanyanzhi，jiushiyishanghaizuidexianyijinxingxingshigaofa。ruobuzheiyang，shishibaolixingweiderenjiuhuiyizhiliucuanyushehui，daozhihouxubudebuyizhijieru。

信田 danneizhishichuqijieruba。keshihuashuohuilai，weishenmezaimianduidvwentishi，meiyourenzheiyangzuoni？

上野 yinweijiahaizhemeiyoushehuiweihaixingba。

信田 yinweibaolizhifashengzaijiatingneibuma？keshicongyilianchuandeshijiankeyikanchu，jishiqizixianggonggongjigouqiuzhu，dabufenjigouyemeiyouliyongxingshigaofaduijiahaizhejinxingjiaoyudeshouduan。

上野 zhengshiruci。xintiannvshisuoshuodehua，congfalicengmianlaijiang，jiushi“guankong”huo“yuanzhu”dequbie。liangzheyouzhegenbenxingdebutong。ruoshiyuanzhu，zebixuyouzizhushengao。ruoshiguankong，neimejiusuanmeiyouzizhushengao，disanfangyenengzuochupanduan。

信田 danshizaiyuanzhubujubeidangshizhexingderenshi，guankongheyuanzhudoupaibushangyongchang。duiyujueduibuhuichuxianzaiyuanzhufanweineideren，gonggongjigoushizhongshishushouwucede。

上野 huasuiruci，yebunengjineixierenbozishangtaoshengzizhuaidaoyuanzhufanweinei。qishicongfalishangshuo，youzheiyangdeshuofa：“bunengrangzheizhongweixianfenziliucuanyushehui，jibiantazhishipengqiaoduimouxietedingderenshizhanbaoli，danzheizaishehuishangyijiushuyufanzuixingwei，shuyuguankongdeduixiang。”

03 直白的男性支配象征

上野 hejiesharenbingfeixinchuxiandexianxiang，ershizaoyiyouzhi。shenzhikeyishuo，zheishiyizhongjiweilaoshengchangtande、suichukejiandefanzui。danshi，zheiyixianxiangjinlaizengtianleliangzhongxindeyaosu。yishijinguanyougonggongjigouyidingxingshidejieru，haishibunengwanquanfangzhifanzui；ershizaimeitibaodaohejiesharenshi，cengjingzhihuitiji“taozou”，jinlaigaiwei“xingxiongzheduiyinbaolitaolideqizihuolianrenqiongzhuibushe”。huanyanzhi，jiushibaodaodecuocizhongmingquelenvxingtaolideyuanyinzaiyunanfangdeshishi。cengjingduihejiesharendebaodaozhong，haichuxianguoshouhaizhelingmixinhuanyuzhisibendemiaoshu。

信田 ciqiandemeitizuofashizaiguofena。

上野 shihenguofen。hejiesharenzhendeshiyizhonglishiyoujiudefanzui，erqieshiyixingxiongshazhongzuichangjiandemoshi。

信田 guoqubushihaiyouzheiyangdegecima——“wobingbuliuliantaozoudelaopo”。

上野 hushuobadao，jianzhitailiulianle。xintiannvshishuoguoyijuzhilimingyan：“weishenmezhangfuyaooudashenaideqizi？jiranaijiuyaoda，neiburubuai。yinweishizijideqizi，tacaiyaoda。huanzuobierendeqizi，tacaibuhuidongshou。”zheijuhuajiushihejiesharendeneihan。zhenduitaozoudenvren，zhongjidezhanyoufangshijiushishahai。zheishifeichangzhibaidenanxingzhipeixiangzheng。

04 “绅士的男人”与“绅士的军队”是相同的悖论

上野 duidvdefenxiyueshishenru，jiuyuehuidechuzheiyangdejielun：zaiyibanxingde“nanziqigai”he“ai”degainianzhong，doubaohanzhezhipeiyuzhanyoudeguannian，“dalaopodenanrenhebudalaopodenanrenzhongjianbucunzaigeduan，yemeiyouchayi”。neime，nandaozhiyoujisuoyounanrenqushi，cainengchedifangfandvma？zheijiuxiangzuzhiyongyoujunshililiangdemeiguoshiyongwuqiyiyang，shijuebukenengshixiandeshiqing。“shenshidenanren”yu“shenshidejundui”shixiangtongdebeilun。neishiyinweinanxingdexingbieshuxingbenshenjiuzhirulezhipeiyuzhanyouma？

信田 shishizhengshiruci，danshijinpingnizheigejieshi，haoxianghulveleqizhongyixiefuzajiujiedecunzai。

上野 neijiuqingnijuchuanli，zuoyizuofuzaerjiujiedejiexiba。（xiao）

信田 youdenanrenzaijiehunshihuiduizijixiayidao“jueduibudalaopo”dejinling，youdenanrensuiranbuhuidalaopo，danshihuiduiqishijiayuyanbaolihexingaifangmiandeqiangzhi。

上野 xintiannvshixuanbiande《zhiribenzuichouloudefumudeyifengxin》（1997nian）zhong，youyijuhuarangwozhijinnanwang：“baba，wonanpengyouyicidoumeiduiwotaiguoshou。”

信田 “taishou”zheigetiyongcirangwotebiegankai，zheixienandedoubuzhishuo“ouda”ni。qishi“taishou”zheigeci，shijiahaizhedeyongyu。

上野 duia。anzhaochangshilijie，jiranshoutaile，kendingshiyaoluoxialaide。ketamenbushuo“meiyouxiaguoshou”，ershuo“meiyoutaiguoshou”，zhenshiyizhongjuemiaodeweiwanni。

信田 wozuijinfaxian，baoliyizhiyizheizhongweiwandefangshibeijiangshu，rangrenbudebugantanqijizhizhiqiaomiao。

上野 neishidangran，biruba“maichun”shuocheng“maichun”。

信田 都是一样的呢。

上野 haiyouba“sexualharassment”shuocheng“saorao”huo“ezuoju”。youqishi“ezuoju”，jianzhitaieliele。

信田 xuduoxinlixuehejingshenyixuedeyanjiu，jiuzhijuxianyuzheigefangmian。weishenmezheigerenhuidaren？weishenmeneigerenbudaren？darenwuguanchengzhangjingli，ershiyinweibudongdekongzhichongdonghuozhexinlibugouchengshu。xianggangcaishangyenvshishuode“darendenanrenhebudarendenanren，zhongjianbucunzaigeduan”“shibushizhiyouqushicainengdujuebaoli”，zheileishidianjiuwanquanbucunzai。

上野 zheijiushishitujiangyiqieyuanyinguijieyugetidegetiwanjiezhuyi。keyishuo，zheishixinlixuezhedelouxi。ergetiguijiedezuijiduanxueshuo，jiushiqizhixingzhangaishuo。haiyoujiushikaoyaowukongzhi。

信田 dangwomenbananrenqufenweidarendenanrenhebudarendenanren，neimezuiqiangshide，haishidarendenanren。yinweidarenyizhiyilaidoushinanziqigaidexiangzheng，erbudarendenanren，shizhongshichenmode。

上野 zhishaodarendenanrenzailishishangyizhibeijiena，meiyouchengweibeifeinandeduixiang。

信田 shenzhiliuxingzheizhongshuofa：“buhuidongshoudenanrentaitianzhen。”“laopoma，dayidunjiulaoshile。”

上野 haiyou“lianlaopodouguanjiaobule，suanshenmenanren”。kanlainanxingdudangyimiandetiaojian，jiushijiangyigenvrendangzuozijidejueduisuoyouwu，lingqichuzaizijidezhipeizhixia。

05 男人的根基被动摇

信田 baolishiyizhongguanxixing。dvdewentiyewuguanbeioudadetengtong，ershibeioudadeshunjian，qiziyuzhangfudeguanxi。

上野 worenweishizheiyangde。neiyike，nvxingduinanxinggongjixingdekongjuhuichengweirihoudexinliyinying。piruzaizhanzhengzhongshiquxiazhihuozheshenshouqiangshang，zheixietengtongdoubuhuizhangjiucanliuzaijiyizhong。jinguanrenmenzonghuishuo“jiushangyinyinzuotong”。jiusuanshikaowen，zuihouliuzaijiyizhongdeyebushiroutishangdetengtong，ershiduidangshineizhongkongjudexinlichuangshang。

信田 haiyouyixieyanjiurenweidvshi“jiankangwenti”。zheizaizhuchanshihebaojianshidezazhishangkeyikandao。zheimeshuoqishiyoudaoli，yinweigutouhuibeidazhe，bilianghuibeidawai，ermohuibeidachuan。keshijiuyinweizheiyang，bianbataguijieweijiankangwentima？wozongjuedeyoudianbuduijing。ruguodanlunmuqiandeshentijiyi，shentidehuifulishihenqiangde，tengtongyeshihuiwangquede。dvqishishidangshidezhuangkuangheshuangfangdeguanxixingzaochengdexinlichuangshang。

上野 jiashexinlixueshixinlihaiyuanzhuyi，neimejiangdvdingyiweijiankangwentideyiliaojierenshijiushiliexingdeshentihaiyuanzhuyi。zaineixierenyanzhong，zhiyaoshentibucanliuhenji，baolijiubucunzai。

信田 youyizhonglandajiedeshuofashi“nvrenyehuidananren”。anzhaonishuodelilun，zhiyaonanrenshentiliuxialechuangshang，jiusuanshibaoliba。keshinvrenjiusuandananren，yebuhuijinanrendailairenhekongju。tamenzhihuijuede：“chongwuyaowole，chongwuzainaozhewanerni。”“aiyo，haitingjue，xiangzaofanma？”tamenneixinbuhuichanshengkongjuhejinge。zheishibuduichengde。

上野 nanxinggandaodekongju，shinvfangtaolidekongju。tamenzuihaipabenyingyouzijizhipeidedongxituranyouleziwo。

信田 meicuo。tamenhaipadeshizhipeiquanshoudaoweixie。huanyanzhi，nanrenyinweihaipa，caiduinvrenshijiabaoli。tamenhaipashenme？qishiyaodaohenhoumiandejieduan，tamencaihuichanshengnvfangtaozoudekongju。pubianlaishuo，dvdeshouhaizhedoushibizhangfunengshuohuidaoderen。tamenhuichuopozhangfucuiruodeluoji，zhichuqibuhelizhichu，bingyincijifazhangfudebaoli。ruguoanzhaoshangyenvshideshuofa，“quanlishiduizhuangkuangdedingyiquan”，neimenanrenhaipade，kenengzhengshitamenzuoweizhuangkuangdingyizhedegenjibeidongyao。

上野 yuanlairuci。yinweitamencuiruodenanxingziworenzhibeiyaohanle。zhutianqingsizheijuhua，shuobailejiushixiangbiaodaqizishizijidelingtuma。“nideroutishiwodelingtu。”“buzhishirouti，haibaokuojingshen。”tajiushixiangshuozheigebei。

信田 zaiwomenkanlai，neishizhipei。danshizaitakanlai，neishienchong。nanrenzaibeiqiziwunishi，huigandaotebieshoushang。qizimeiyoujichutasuoqidaidefanying，meiyouzuochutasuoqidaidexingdong，suoyitashenshoushanghai，bingqiezaiyishidaozijishenshoushanghaizhiqian，jiuyijingdongshoule。

上野 anzhaodangshirendeshuofa，zhangfuhenkenengrenweizijicaishishouhaizhe？

信田 zhengshiruci。nanrendoujuedezijicaishishouhaizhe。

上野 a，shima？tamenhuishuo“woshishouhaizhe”ma？

信田 huishuo。suiranbuhuiyong“shouhaizhe”zheigeci，dantamenhuishuo“yuanyinzaiqizi”。

上野 zaishuochuneijuhuadeshunjian，dengyuchengrenleqizigaoyuziji。zheibuhuiyousunnanrendezunyanma？

信田 renweizijishishouhaizhebingbudengyuchengrenqizigaoyuziji。tamentongguojiangzerenzhuanjiajiqizidefangshi，zhengdanghualezijidexingwei。yinweihenduonanrenhuishuo：“wodoushiweileqizicaijingyingzhejiating。”tamenkejiaohuale。jibenbuhuiyounanrenshahuhudizhishuo“laopobuzuncongwodezhipei”。

上野 meiyourenhuitounaodanchundishuo“douguaitabutinghua”ma？

信田 neizhongrendangranbushijueduibucunzai，danshiwoconglaimeipengdaoguo。dayuesanfenzhiyidenanxinghuiruohuazijidebaolixingwei，lingwaisanfenzhieryaomebujide，yaomefouding。tamenshibushiguyide，wojiuwucongzhixiaole。

上野 xuanzexingyiwangshiba。birushuo：“qishijiushidianxiaoshi，wolaopotaikuazhangle。”

信田 meicuo。“woxinxinkukuzhichengzheigejia，taque......”

上野 zheixiezaiwokanlai，doushichiluoluodecuiruodenanxingxing。

书摘部分节选自《身为女性的选择》，较原文有删节，经出版社授权发布，按语：黄月，未经授权不得转载。