界面新闻记者 | 林子人

界面新闻编辑 | 黄月

在第四届上海“五五购物节”期间，一批艺术展览活动也会相继推出，成为优质的文旅资源。界面文化将选取其中有代表性的部分展览进行推荐，组成“乐游上海艺术季”专题稿件，今天介绍的“本源之画——超现实主义与东方”展是该系列的第二篇。

xianmeishuguanyupengpiduzhongxinwunianzhanchenhezuoxiangmuniandutezhan“benyuanzhihua——chaoxianshizhuyiyudongfang”yuwuyiqianxikaimu。zhanlansuyuanleciqianweicengbeichongfentaolunguodechaoxianshizhuyiyudongfangwenhuadeguanxi，jieyouhuan·miluo（joan miró）、andelie·masong（andré masson）、zhaowujidengzhuduochaoxianshizhuyihechouxiangzhuyidashidezuopin，zhezhongzhanxianzheiyiyishuliupaidechouxiangtexing。

展览展出近百件作品（其中包括蓬皮杜中心的“镇馆之宝”胡安·米罗的《星座》xiliedeng），fenweishigezhangjietantaoleribenhuihuahedongfangzhexueduixibanyahuajiahuan·miluoduonianchuangzuodeyingxiang、faguohuajiaandelie·masongshouzhongguohuihuayushenmizhuyiyingxiangcongerjianghuihuayushufaronghedeshijian、xiongyalihuajiaximeng·hantaihezhudite·laigeerzaichaoxianshizhuyiyuchouxianghuihuazhijiandetansuo、faguohuajiarang·degetekesiduishanxuesixiangdexishou，yijibilishichaoxianshizhuyidaibiaorenwukelisidian·duoteleimengde“yusuwenzi”deng。

bencizhanlandecezhanrenzhiyi、faguoguojiaxiandaiyishubowuguanfuguanzhangdidiai·aotingge（didier ottinger）zaijieshoujiemianwenhua（id: booksandfun）shibiaoshi，chaoxianshizhuyiyidingchengdushangjiexuledeguolangmanzhuyiduilixingzhuyidezhiyi，ersuiranchaoxianshizhuyizai1966nianbuledongqushihouzhujianchenji，danjinnianlaichengxianchufuxingtaishi。tahuoxuzaicianheledangdairenzaimianduizheigekuaisubianhuadeshijieshixinzhongyongdongdejiaolvyuzisheng。

duichaoxianshizhuyibutailejiedeguanzhonghuoxuhuichanshengyigeyiwen：weishenmezheichangguanyuchaoxianshizhuyidezhanlanzhongmeiyoudali？zaicaifangzhong，aotinggejieshicheng，dalirujinzhanjulewomenduichaoxianshizhuyideyinxiang，hendachengdushangshitashanyu“ziwoyingxiao”dejieguo。congchaoxianshizhuyiyundongdefazhanlichenglaikan，tazhizaiyiduanshijianneizhanjuguozhongxinweizhi，chaoxianshizhuyiyundongdehexinrenwubuledongzaiduanzanchuipengguodalizhihoushenzhirenwei，tadechuangzuofangshitaiguochuantong。

chaoxianshizhuyishixiandaiyishushishangchixushijianzuizhangdexianfengyishuyundong，shiouzhouwenyijieduidiyicishijiedazhandezhijiehuiying。yizhanshi20shijixifangsixiangshishangdezhongyaofenshuiling。yingguosixiangshixuezhebide·wosen（peter watson）zai《xuwushidai》zhongzhichu，yizhanhou，liruweidagongcheng、weidazhuti、weidalinianzhongdeneige“weida”（greatness）gainianzaodaoshenshenzhiyi，zheikenengshishigechengweizhanzhengshiqizhuyaoyishuxingshideyuanyin——shirenwangwangguanzhushenghuozhongdeweixiaoshiwu，wulunshihaoshihuai。chaoxianshizhuyidezhijiexianqurenwushiqiaozhi·de·jilike（giorgio de chirico），tachuangzuoyu1913niandezihuaxiangbiaotiwei《wochongbaideshiwunenggouzhengjiunanjiezhimima？》。tazaijiexialaijiniandechuangzuozhongchixuguanzhuzheiyizhuti，liyongqiguaidexiantiaohemeiyoulaiyuan、momingchuxiandezhangyinying，guanzhuputongrenshenghuozhonglingrenbuandebianhua。

zhenzhengbiaozhizhechaoxianshizhuyiyundongkaiduande，shiandelie·buledong（andré breton）fabiaoyu1924niande《chaoxianshizhuyixuanyan》。zhideyitideshi，buledongshiyiweishiren，chaoxianshizhuyiyundongyincishiyigeyoushirenzhudaodeyishuyundong。buledongzai《xuanyan》zhongbiaoshi，chaoxianshizhuyizhedemubiaoshitongguo“zidongshuxie”defangshi，zhengtuolixingdeshufu，yibianzhanxianchuwuyishidefeilixingliliang。wosenrenwei，chaoxianshizhuyishituzhudongjiangyinkexueershisuhuadeshijie“fumei”，“zheiyanglaikan，chaoxianshizhuyiconggenbenshangjiangshiyizhongzhiliao。”

duiyubencizhanlanzhongshejidechaoxianshizhuyiyishujiameneryan，yizhandailailexifangjiazhiguandebengta，tamenyushibaguanzhudeshixianzhuanxiangyazhou，bingzaidongfangwenhuazhongfaxianleyigehuihuayushigemibukefendeshijie。20shijishangbanye，chaoxianshizhuyituantiquanqiugedikaihua，1931nian6yue《shenbao》baodaolechaoxianshizhuyi，zheiyigainianshoucibeiyinruzhongguo。cinian，panxunqin、niyidedengrenzaishanghaichenglijuelanshe，weichaoxianshizhuyiyundongzaizhongguodetuiguangzuochulezhongyaogongxian。

ji“chouxiangyishuxianqu：kangdingsiji”zhihou，“benyuanzhihua——chaoxianshizhuyiyudongfang”zaidulianshoushanghaibowuguan，houzheweibencizhanlantigongleshujianshuhuazhenpin，baokuoliangkai（chuan）《budaiheshangtu》juan、dongqichang《yanwubajingtu》ce、badashanren《guoshulaiqintu》ye、xugu《lutangyuyitu》ye、yunshouping《shanshuihuahuitu》cedengchuanshizhizuo，yupengpiduzhongxindechaoxianshizhuyizuopinxingchengmouzhongkuayujing、kuashikongdeduihua。

guanzhongjinruzhanting，shouxianyingruyanliandejiushibingzhizaiyiqidehengli·mixiaode《shuimohua》yufushande《caoshuqijueshisitiaoping（xuanyi）》，zheiliangjianzhakanzhixiayouxieshensidezuopinxingchengleyizuhenyouqudeduizhao。aotinggegaosujiemianwenhua，shangbotongrenduibencizhanlandedalizhichilingtagandong，chujiezhanpindeshuliangyuzhiliangdouchaoguoleyuqi。julejie，zhanlanqijianshangbodezhanpinjianglunhuanzhanchu。

界面文化：为什么超现实主义在欧洲有如此长久的生命力？它对参与这一运动的艺术家而言有怎样的吸引力？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：chaoxianshizhuyikeweixiandaiyishushishangzuizhangjiudexianfengyishuyundong，cong1924niandao1966nianandelie·buledongqushi，yanxulesishiduonian。zaidangshi，chaoxianshizhuyichuanbodaolequanqiugedi，zaidongou、nanmei、ribenhezhongguodouyongxianlechaoxianshizhuyituanti。worenweichaoxianshizhuyidexiyinlizairujinshenzhigengshen。yiweinisishuangnianzhanweili，zuoweijiludangdaiyishufazhandeyishushenghui，weinisishuangnianzhanzaizuijinliunianshijianliliangduyichaoxianshizhuyiweixiansuozuzhizhanlan。

worenweizheibeihouyoushenkedehanyi。chaoxianshizhuyishidiyigetiaozhanruxiawenmingfazhanmoshiguanniandeyundong：wenmingjianlizaiwuzhizhuyi、jishuheduijiqidexinxinzhishang，wenmingyiweizhezhuzai、kongzhihetansuoshijie。zaihenduonianli，zaisuoweidejinbushidai，renmenxiangxinyiqiejieyoukeneng，danrujinwomenzhidaowentigengfuza，zheizhongyishixingtaizaimouzhongchengdushanglaishuohuicuihuizheigexingqiu。chaoxianshizhuyihuoxushidiyigeduiciyousuochajuedeyundong，tichuwomenbixuduizheizhongrenzhishijiedefangshi——nanrenhenvren、lixingyuzhuzai——jinxingfansi。qiansuoweiyoudi，chaoxianshizhuyizhexunzhaodingweirenleizaiyuzhouzhongweizhidelingyizhongfangshi。

zheishitamenduideguolangmanzhuyihenganxingqudeyuanyin。zaixingershangxuedecengmianshang，deguolangmanzhuyidagaiweichaoxianshizhuyidaxialejichu。deguolangmanzhuyishiduiqimengyundongdehuiying。18shijiqimengyundongchuanbianleouzhou，dandeguoyouyipilangmanzhuyizhejingshileqimengyundongdeweixian，renweiwomenyoukenenghuiyinciqieduanyuziran、yuneizaishijiedeguanxi。chaoxianshizhuyiyuzheiyisixiangyougongtongzhichu。chaoxianshizhuyizuichushiyifanlixingzhuyidezitaichuxiande。lixingzhuyishifuertai、mengdesijiu、dideluodeng18shijifaguozhexuejiasikaorenyushijieguanxidefangshi。danlangmanzhuyizhehechaoxianshizhuyizhedourenwei，lixingsuiranzhongyao，womenyexuyaozhongshirendejingshenshijie，guanqieziran。

zheiyeshiweishenmerujinrenmenyoukaishizhongshichaoxianshizhuyi——womenyoudaolexuyaozhongxinsikaorenyuziran、shijieheyuzhouguanxideshihou。yexuchaoxianshizhuyishiyizhongqianyishidefanying，dandequeyuelaiyueduoderenrenweitahenyouqu。

界面文化：超现实主义也是对第一次世界大战的直接回应？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：queshiruci。chaoxianshizhuyishiyouyixiejingliguodiyicishijiedazhandenianqingshirenhehuajiachuanglide。yizhankeweishizhenzhengyiyishangdewenmingduanlie，zaineizhiqiandexianfengyishuzhongyouweilaizhuyihelitizhuyi（mouzhongyiyishanglaishuo），zheilianggeliupaidoumilianjiqi。weilaizhuyizherenwei，quansuqianjinshigengmeimiaode。ranerjingliguoyizhandezheiyidairenkaishirenweijiqihejishuhuicuihuirenlei，erfeizaofurenlei，tamenyincigaibianlichang，tichuwomenxuyaogouxiangyixiebutongdedongxi。

界面文化：你刚才说近年来有一股超现实主义回潮。是从什么时候开始的？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：womenkeyizaiweinisishuangnianzhankandaozheiyidian。quniandeweinisishuangnianzhanzhutishi“mengxiangzhiru”（the milk of dreams）。cezhanrenbiaoshi，tamenxiwangzhanshidangdaiyishudeyuanjing，erchaoxianshizhuyisihushilijiedangxiayishutujingdeguanjian。neiyijieshuangnianzhanshangwomenkandaolefeichangduochaoxianshizhuyiyishujia，tebieshichaoxianshizhuyinvxingyishujia。

界面文化：超现实主义和抽象表现主义有什么区别？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：“chaoxianshizhuyi”zheigecizuizaoyoufaguoshirenjiyaomu·abolinaier（guillaume apollinaire）zai1917niantichu，tayulitizhuyiyishujiaquanziguanximiqie。danzuoweiyizhongyishuyundong，chaoxianshizhuyizhenzhengdekaiduanshizai1924nian，dangnianandelie·buledongfabiaole《chaoxianshizhuyixuanyan》。chouxiangbiaoxianzhuyishifaduanyuerzhanhoumeiguodeyundong，qidaibiaorenwubaokuojiekexun·boluoke（jackson pollock）、banite·niuman（barnett newman）deng。mouzhongchengdushanglaishuo，chouxiangbiaoxianzhuyijiexulechaoxianshizhuyi。

界面文化：当我们提到超现实主义的时候，很多人的第一反应是萨尔瓦多·达利（Salvador Dali），和此次展览展出的作品相比，他的作品更容易理解，也和传统西方艺术更接近。超现实主义似乎有两波，或者说两个流派，但为什么是达利的风格而不是更抽象自省的风格占据了我们对超现实主义的印象呢？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：zheidequeshiyigelingrenchijingdexianxiang。zuichudangwomentichuxiangjubanyigeguanyuchaoxianshizhuyidezhanlanshi，henduorendefanyingdoushi，taihaole，womenkeyikandaodalidezuopinle。woshuo，cuole，womenxiangtandebushizheiwei（xiao）！

1924-1929年是超现实主义的初期阶段，达利还没有参与其中。当时探索何为超现实主义画作的主要是艺术家安德烈·马松和胡安·米罗。马松为1924年创办的超现实主义杂志《超现实主义革命》（La Révolution surréaliste）tigonglexuduozuopin。zheifenchubanshijianbuzhangdezazhishitudingyiheweichaoxianshizhuyihuihua，dangshibeirenweishichaoxianshizhuyitongrendeyishujiayoubijiasuoheqiaozhi·de·jilike，danquanshenxintouruchaoxianshizhuyichuangzuodezhiyoumasong。jilikehebijiasuochuangzuodehaishijuxiangyishu，masongchuangzuodeneixiechouxianghuihuazuopinrangbuledongnanyilijie。womenxuyaozhuyiyidian，buledongshiyiweishiren，erbushihuajia。

1929nian，chaoxianshizhuyidefazhanyudaoleyigezhongdatiaozhan。1927nian，buledongdengchaoxianshizhuyizhejuedingjiarufaguogongchandang。faguogongchandangrenwei，yiweiyouxiudedangyuanyinggaiguanxinxianshi，ertamenshengchengzijishi“chaoxianshizhuyizhe”，zheishifouyiweizhetamenduixianshibuganxingqu？1929nian，saerwaduo·dalilaidaolebali，bingdailaileyigejiejuefangan——nikeyijishichaoxianshizhuyizhe，youmianduixianshi。tadehuihuafeichangzhaoxiangxieshizhuyi，kanshangqufeichangzhenshi，danyucitongshitadehuihuayeshichaoxianshide，yinweitamendezhutidouyuhuanxiang、mengjingzhileidedongxiyouguan。yincidalimingzaoyishi，chengweilechaoxianshizhuyiyundongzhongdeguanjianrenwu。1929-1934nian，shenzhibuledongdouchengzandalidaibiaolechaoxianshizhuyidejingshen。

daliyincichuming，qianwangmeiguohoutafeichangshanyuyingxiaoziji，pinpinjieshoubaozhicaifang，yudishinihezuo。cishi，buledongyouduitachanshenglehuaiyi，renweidalibushiyigechuncuidechaoxianshizhuyizhe，taguanxindezhishijinqianhemingsheng。1934nian，dalibeichaoxianshizhuyituantichuming，buledongheqitashirenyexuexilezugouduodeguanyuchaoxianshizhuyihuihuadezhishi，tamenzhuanguotouquhuidaole“zidongshuxie”dechaoxianshizhuyiyuanchugainian。zaitamen1930niandaimoliuwangmeiguoqian，yijingchuxianlexinyipizhiliyu“zidongshuxie”deyishujia。erzhanhoubuledonghuidaofaguo，takandaodeshiyifuquanxinjingxiang——suoyourendoujiangzhuyilizhuanxiangchouxiang，tebieshishuqingchouxiang（lyrical abstraction）。taduicibiaoshi，zheirangwoxiangdaole1920niandaideqingxing。

yinci，dalizhishichaoxianshizhuyideyigebufen，dantataiguochuming，yizhiyuxuduorenjiangtadengtongyuchaoxianshizhuyi，qishiburan。buledongzaizugoulejieyishuhouyishidao，daliqishifeichangxueyuanpai，tahuihuadefangshishi19shijide，shenzhidoubugouxiandaiyishu。

youyigeyouqudexiaogushi：dangbuledongyinweierzhanlikaiouzhouqianwangmeiguoniuyueshi，tashengchengzijishichaoxianshizhuyidechuangshiren，danmeiguorenbuxiangxinta，zaitamenkanlai，dalicaishi。

界面文化：从如今的艺术史学者的角度来说，超现实主义的“正统”是什么呢？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：chaoxianshizhuyidechenggongzhichuzaiyutameiyoutedingdefengge。chaoxianshizhuyikeyishichouxiangde，yekeyishijuxiangde，tashiyizhongjingshen，erbushiyizhongfengge。shenmeshichaoxianshizhuyiqujueyuyishujiazijidedingyi。

界面文化：我对展览介绍中的一句话感到有些惊讶——“像超现实主义这样创造了真诚的东西方美学对话的西方图像运动是非常罕见的。”在超现实主义之前，其实有不少东西方文化交流影响西方视觉艺术的先例，比如日本画之于印象主义，中国审美之于中国风。请再解释一下这个观点？

迪迪埃·奥廷格：艺术史学者乔治·杜图伊（Georges Duthuit）发表于1936年的一篇专论《中国的神秘性与现代绘画》(Mystique chinoise et peinture moderne）duihenduochaoxianshizhuyiyishujiayingxianghenda。dutuyirenwei，suiranfangao、saishangdengyinxiangpaihuajiashoudaoleribenyishudeyingxiang，danmasong、miluodengchaoxianshizhuyihuajiayutamenyousuobutong。tamenduihuihuadejiqiaobuganxingqu，tamenganxingqudeshiyishudejingshen，tamenyincijinruleyigegengshendecengciqulijieyazhouyishudezhenyi，erfeitingliuzaibiaomian。tamenxiwanghuidarenyushijiedeguanxishishenme、renyaoruhelijieziji，tamengengjiazhuzhongjingshen，erfeixingshi。

界面文化：我们要如何理解超现实主义运动中的“东西方对话”？马松的“自动绘画”据称借鉴了中国书画，而且他对宋代绘画特别感兴趣。但马松的作品以及许多其他在此次展览中展出的作品看上去和中国绘画毫不相似。

迪迪埃·奥廷格：yexutamencongweixiangguofuzhizhongguohuihua。tamenxiangyaozhuazhudeshiyizhongjingshen，zhongxindingyirenyuyuzhoudeguanxi。zhongguoyishujianenggouzaiwangwodezhuangtaixiahuodepingheningjing，tamennengzhuazhutiankong、yuncai、liushuide“qi”，zheishichaoxianshizhuyiyishujiamenxiangzuodaode。

20shijijihusuoyouxianfengyishuyundongdoushiyouhuajiafaqide，birubijiasuofaqilelitizhuyi，feilibo·tuomasuo·malineidi（filippo tommaso marinetti）faqileweilaizhuyi，weiyouchaoxianshizhuyidechuangshirenshishiren。chaoxianshizhuyihuihuayushigeguanximiqie。chaoxianshizhuyiyishujiajingchangsikaodeyigewentishi，ruhexiangxianghuihuaheshigezhijiandeshijie？

miluozaozai1925nianjiuzhijiezaihuabushangxiezi，tarenweizijiyeshiyiweishiren。masongrenwei，xifanghuihuachuantongzhangjiuyilaijianghuihuashizuoduirenyankanjianzhiwudezaixian，dantarenweihuihuayinggaishixunzhaoruhezaishigehehuihuazhijianbiaodaziwodefangshi。zaizheiyifangmian，zhongguohuihuatigongleyigewanmeidefanli。zheishitamenweishenmeduisongdaihuihuaganxingqudeyuanyin，gudairenwenhuajiachangdao“shuhuatongyuan”。

2023年4月29日-2023年9月24日，“本源之画——超现实主义与东方”在上海西岸美术馆展出。

参考资料：

【ying】bide·wosen.《xuwushidai：shangdisihouwomenruheshenghuo》.shanghaiyiwenchubanshe.2021.