主持人：jiemianxinwengaojifuzongcai guoweizhong

圆桌嘉宾：

junzhijituanzongcai、qiaodongdaxuechuangshiren yaorongjun

mengxiangjituanlianhechuangshiren、ceo lengjing

fuxingquanqiuhehuoren、xingmaikejidongshizhang hechuan

shanchuangshirenjianceo wuhongxing

fanliwangchuangshirenjianceo geyongchang

yixiashiyuanzhuoduihuashilu，jingquerenfabu。

郭为中：zaiyidonghulianwangdechongjixia，suoyouchuantongxingyedouyoulequanxindefazhan。womenxianqinggeweijiabinlaixiangwomenjieshaoyixiageziqiyedehexinfazhanmoshi。shouxianyaoqingmengxiangjituan，yejiushiyuanlaideaikucunjituandelianhechuangshirenlengjingnvshifenxiangyixiamengxiangjituandeshangyemoshi。

冷静：henyouyuanfendeshi，liangtianzhiqianwomenjituanganggangzaizheigechangdijubanlejituanshengjidefabuhui，meixiangdaoliangtianzhihouyoulaidaozheili。qishimengxiangjituandedingweishichengweixindianshangjichusheshidetigongzhe，tongguobaasmoshi（shangyejifuwu）quanmianfunengdianzhu，tigongbaokuogongyingliannengli、yunyingfuwu、shuzihuadianpuzaineidezuixiaoyewudanyuandejichusheshi，bangzhuyongyouliuliangdegetihuozheqiyeshixianxianshangjingying。womenjituanqixiayongyouaikucun、xiangdiandengyewu。muqian，shuyuchuantongyewubankuaideaikucungengduodeshizhenduixiaob（dianzhu）degongjuchang，erjujiaoyujiaoyidexiangdianzeshixiaob（dianzhu）jicdejiaoyichang。zheigenwomendeshangyemoshiyouguanxi。womendeshangyemoshizhongqizhezhiguanzhongyaodezuoyong，womenshifenzhuzhongduiyuxiaob（dianzhu）defuneng。suoyimengxiangjituanzhengtideshangyemoshigenputongqiyechuantongdeb to cshangyemoshibuyiyang，womengengjujiaoyub（dianzhu）duan。yincizaizuokenengyouhenduorenbutaizhidaowomen，yinweiwomenmeiyouzhenduicduanzuodaliangdetoufang，danshizaixiaob（dianzhu）duanwomenyinggaishibijiaoyouyingxianglide，daomuqianweizhixiangdianyibangzhuchaoguo200wandexiaob（dianzhu）shixianlinghuojiuye，tamen（dianzhumen）meitiantongguopingtaizuozhuanfa，zhuanfadaozijidesiyuliuliangqunliquzuoxiaoshou，meitianzaijiayenengshixianyueruguowan，zheiqishishiwomenshangyemoshibijiaotebiededifang。

郭为中：xiexie，jiexialaiwomenyouqingxingmaikejidehechuannvshijiwomenjiangjiang。

何川：xingmaikejishijujiaoyiliao、rengongzhineng、dashujudeyigepingtai。zaidajiaershunengxiangderengongzhinenglingyuyouwomenfeichangduodechanpin。erwomenzhisuoyihuixuanzezheiyangyigelingyuquzuodulidepingtaijishikandaoleyiliaoxingyezhongbenshendetongdian，yekandaolelaiziyulinchuangheguangdabaixingfeichangshenkedexuqiu，zaicijichushangwomenzaizheigelingyusuozuodeshiqingjiuzuochuleshuyuwomenzijidetesehechengji：shouxianwomenbingbushizhijujiaoyuchanpin，jutilaishuo，womenzaizuodeqishishiyigequanchanpindejuzhenpingtai，tongguozheigejuzhenwomenshitugenghaodibawomendezhengtiziyuanyoushiheziyuanliyongxiaolvfahuidegenggao。tongshi，yixinjishudeyingyongdapeizhengtidezhinengyingjian，womenzhuiqiujianggenghaodefuwuyingyongdaokehudangzhong。zuihou，zaiwajueshichangxuqiufangmian，xingmaikejichulekandaochuantongdeqiyexingyegongtongdetongdianzhiwai，kenenghaihuigengjiakuajieyixie，congchuantongdeyiliaojigoujinyibutuozhandaoxiangyaoqi、baoxiandengdenggengjiafanyiliaohuozheshifanjiankangdelingyu，yinci，zonghelaijiang，womenxiwangnengliyongzhengtidejishushangdechuangxinlaijiehechanyefuwuyoushi，weikehutigonggenghaodechanpinhefuwu。

郭为中：xiexiehenvshidefenxiang。xiamianqinglingyiweijiankanglingyudekuajiezhe——shanzhendechuangshirenwuhongxingdailaitadefenxiang。qishiwuxianshengyuanlaishiyigezishendedichanren，ranhouzuoleyigekuajiedechuangyezhuanxiang，dazaoleshanzhengongsi。rangwomenyouqingwuhongxingxianshenggendajiafenxiangyixiatadejingyan。

吴竑兴：shanzhenxiangganshenmeshi？genbenshangshuo，shanzhenshixiangbangzhuzinvzhaogufumushentijiankang。xianzaishehuizuidianxingdeqingkuangzhiyishizinvzaiyierxianchengshigongzuo，danfumuhaizailaojia，zheigeshihoujiuhuichuxianyixilieguanyuzhaogufumudewenti。zheishihoushanzhenshouyibiqian，bangzheixiezaiwaigongzuodezinvzhaogufumuyizhengnian，tigongyiliao、baoxiandengyitihuafuwu。hongguanshangkan，zhongguojiatingjiegouzi80houyidaikaishifashenggenbenxinggaibian，yiqiandejiatingjiegoushifumuzhoubianyouyiduizinv，80niandaikaishi，dushengzinvjuduo。jiyucijiatingjiegoufashengdegenbenxinggaibianyidinghuidailaiyanglaomoshidebianhua，yiqianshizinvzijigongyanghezhaogufumu，congzheidairenkaishi，yuelaiyueduoderenhuiqingxiangyutongguogoumaifuwulaiyanglao。danxianzaizhongguozheifangmiandefuwubujuhaishihenruode。yinci，shanzhenjiushiyaozaizinvxinmudangzhongjianliyigexingxiang：fumujiankangdeshiqing，zhiyaozhaoshanzhenjiunengshixianyizhanshifuwu。zheishijishangshizhuazhulezhongguolaolinghuaqushidailaideqiji。

muqianshanzhenchuangyewunian，qunianganggangwanchengclunrongzi，zaizhonglaonianjiankangzheigesaidaoliwomenshilingxiande：congshujulaikan，fufeishiyongguowomendefuwuyonghuyijingleiji600wanrenci；xianxiawomenconggongyingduankaitongfuwudechengshiyijingchaoguo270ge。

郭为中：fanliwangshiyigeyituoyuhulianwangdanshengdepinpaihegongsi，xiamianqinggeyongchanggezonglaijieshaoyixiafanliwangdeyixiejingyan。

葛永昌：fanliwangchuangyebijiaozao，jinnianshichuangyededi14nian。2006niandeshihoudianzishangwuhaichuyubijiaozaoqidefazhanjieduan，xianzaidianshangyijingwanquanshixiaofeizhuliu。

suoyizheimeduonianyilai，fanliwangdefazhanqishiyizhibuduansuizhexingyebianhuaerbianhua，congzuizaodezhizuochuizhidianshangdedaogou，daorujinwomenbuguangshizuodianshangdaogoufuwu，haibaokuoyixiexianxiadedaojia，waimaidaodian，lvxing。baokuowanggou、waimai、lvyou、chuxingdengchangjingzainei，fanliwangyijingfugaileguoneichaoguo400jiazhuliupingtai，datongyonghuchihewanlegouquanchangjing，bangzhuyonghumaigenghao，shenggengduo。suizhezhenggehulianwanggexingyejueqi，womenyezaibawojihuikuochongfanliwangdefuwu。

zongtilaishuo，suiranshuoyijingchuangyehenduonian，danwomenhaishirulvbobing。dianshangdexingyeshizhongzaimianlinxintiaozhan，yezaibuduanchuangxin，shikedoushiyigequanxindechuangyezhuangtai——zheikeyishuoshiwomendeganwu，jintiandaochangwomenyexiwangnenggengengduodetongxingxuexi、jiaoliuyixia，yezaijiaoliudeguochengzhongfajuehezuodejihui。

郭为中：woduichuangshirenmenqishidoufeichanghaoqi，yaozongjintianzuozaiwopangbian，danshijishangwoyehaishisuanyaozong，yaolaoshidexuesheng。yaozongshiqiaodongdaxuedechuangshiren，zaiqiaodongdaxueshangkedeshihou，laoshimenjiangdeanlidoushitamenshijizaigandedongxi，shenzhijintianjiangdedongxikenengjiushizuotianzuodedongxi，laoshimendouyuanyinachulaifenxiang。yincimeicikechengdoushiquanxinde，yinweitamenmeigejieduanfuwudeqiyedoushibuyiyangde，xiayicikenengyoushiyigexindemoshi。

suoyi，zaishangguolianggechuantongdeshangxueyuanzhihou，woshenkedijuede，zhongguorenzijiyanfachulaideshangyeyouzhongguorendezhihui。houlaiwokanyaolaoshideshu，tajieheleyixiechuantongwenhuadeneirongqujiangshangzhan，birushuo《sunzibingfa》，zheixiegushulishijishangdouyouhenduozhongguorendezhihui，yinciyaolaoshitamenzuoweizhongguodezhanlvezixunfangshijishangyuanbiguowaidezixungongsigenglejiezhongguo，zheikenengjiuxiangfeihegengshihezhongguobaobaodenaifenyiyang。danlingyifangmian，yuanlaiyaolaoshifuwudeqiyedoushizuopianchuantongde，zhenduixiaofeilingyudeyixiepinpai，dangranyedouzuodebijiaochenggong，danzaidangxiazheigejieduan，qishichuantongdepinpaimianduizhegexindetiaozhan，womenyaozenmekanhulianwang？yaoruhequyingduihulianwangdeshichang？youqingyaolaoshifenxiangyixiatadekanfa。

姚荣君：xiexieguozong。womenyeshito b，guoquyegengduofuwuyubijiaochuantongdeyixiezhimingpinpai。danduiyuwomenlaishuo，xinjingjilingyudezuofahechuantongjingjixiangbiguranyouhendadebianhua，danshiqizhongyeyoububiande，womenmianduixinjingjidefazhan，duiqiyeeryanzhongdianyexuyaozaibuquedingxingzhongxunzhaoquedingxing。kehuzaiduipinpaidejiazhixunzhaoquedingxingdeshihouhuifaxian，suoyouqiyedoushishehuideqiguan，zheiyidianbuguanshiguoquhaishixianzaidoushiyizhide。ersuoweixinjingjiqishishiyizhongzhuli，rangwomennenggoujiyuhulianwangshidaidailaideqijigenghaodihekehuqiehe，zaiquzhongxinhuadeshidaibeijingxia，biandegengdongyonghu，suoyixinjingjilingyudefazhanqishigengjiatuidongwomenduiyulianjiekehujiazhidebawo。yinciwojuede，womenshouxianyaojubeidexinjingjisiweishibawoyonghuxuanzewomendeliyou：weishenmegukejintianyaoyongdingdongmaicai，erbushibiede？zhiyaonidepinpaicunzaibeixuanzedetiaozhan，jiuxuyaoxinjingjisiwei，xuyaoyoupinpaidutedejiazhi，zheigeshiyigeweidu。

lingwaiyigeweidu，yeshixinjingjidailaidegengdadeyingxiang，shigukehenigengjiejindejuliyijigengzhijiedefankuihepinglun：yiqianwomenkanbujiangebixiaoqudelinju，jintiandehulianwangbaqianlizhiwaidegushiyechengxiandeyiqingerchu。huanyanzhi，dangxiapinpaigenkehuzhijiandechudianbiandegengkuan，gukehuigengzhijiedibawopinpaixiaofeishuju，suoyizheigeshihougengyaoguanlihaosuoyougengukezhijiandechudianrenzhiwenti。chuantongdexianxiakandaodianmian，yekandaodaogou，chenlie；xinjingjixiafazhanqilaideqiyeyeyiyang，yeyouchanpinxingxiang，chanpintiechulaideshengming，limiandexinxisuqiuyudutejiazhizhijiandechengxianshibuyiyangde。ershijiyonghuxuqiucainengdailaiqiyedeanquangan，zheixiesuqiuruguofangdaoxianshangquyeshiyigezhicheng，huiduixinjingjiyouhenhaodezuoyong。

disandian，jiandanjiang，xinjingjilingyudegegexingyejinyibuxifenhejingxihua，erzaiyigexifenlingyudangzhongwangwangzhixuyaoyigezuodetebiedadexingyelongtou。yincizenmeyangchengweidiyiduiyuwomenlaishuogengjiazhongyao。erzaizheixiefangmian，womenjunzhizixunyefuwuleyixiexinjingjidepinpai。shishishang，jintianwomenmianduidexinjingjiyijingpaoqilesuoweideliuliangshidai，ershizhuanxiangleyongpinpaijiazhiquying。yinci，youjihuixiangguozongshuodeyiyang，dajiayekeyiquwomendexuetangqulejieyixiazheixieanli。

郭为中：yaozongjianglejunzhidesiwei，jiangdefeichangpianpiruli。jiuwozijideganxianglaitan，woqishihenrentongyijuhua：qiyecunzaidejiazhihuozheshuoliyoujiushiweilechuangzaoguke，huanyanzhi，yigeqiyeruguoyizhifuwuguyoudeguke，neigeqiyemeiyoucunzaiyiyi。danwoxiangxin，zaizaixianxinjingjilingyu，meiyoudilidejushu，jishukeyichuangzaowuqiongdeguke——quanguo，shenzhikeyishiquanshijiede。danshizheigelinianyaoruhehuidaoxianshizhixinghuozheshicaozuodangzhong？dangxiayoudeshihou，womenkenenghuiweilechuangzaogukeerchuangzaoguke，zaizheigeguochengzhongjiubazijiyuanlaideyixiemengxiangzoupian。neimeruhebawozishendebubian，ruhezhenzhengquchuangzaoguke？gegezaizaixianxinjingjilingyufazhandehenchenggongdeqiyedeshijiangenyuanshichuangyeshihoudemengxiang，shibushihaiyizhi？jiexialaiwomenqinglengnvshigenwomenfenxiangyixia，mengxiangjituanruhezaichuangzaogukedeguochengzhongbawoqiyezishendejiazhi。

冷静：worentongguozongshuode，qiyecunzaidejiazhizaiyunidaodichuangzaoleshenmedutedeshehuijiazhi，yezaiyuninengchuangzaoduodadeshehuijiazhi，zheishimeiyigezijibanqiyederenbixuyaosikaoqingchudedian。jiuxianggangcaiyaolaoshizaishuode，queshizaidangxiawomenshizaiyixiliedebuquedingxingdangzhongquxunzhaoquedingxing，womenxianzaiyezaisikao，daodichuangzaodejiazhi，quedingdianzainali？birushuozaixiaofeizhezhuiqiujizhixingjiabi，tongdengfuwudeqingkuangxia，zaixiaofeizhexiangshougouwuguochengdeqingkuangxia，daodinenggouweitachuangzaodequedingxingdedongxizainali？

zaicijichushang，wojuedexingjiabiyongyuanshiraobukaidehuati。yinci，womenzuijinyeshiweiraozheigedianquzuodegongzuo，zheigeshixiangduiquedingdedian。duiyuwomenlaishuo，womenzaijinxingguochengdangzhong，xuyaoqukaolvzenmeba˙zheigequedingdedianfangda，ranggengduodexiaofeizhemanyi，zheishiwomenneibubuduansikaodeguanjianwenti。

lingwai，liuliangdezuzhixingshiyeyizhidouzaibianhua，suiranwomengongsichenglizhiyousannianbudao，danwozijizuoweidianshangcongyezheyijingshiduonian。zheishijinianzhong，qishidianshangyouhenduodedongxishizaibianhuade，tebieshiliuliangzuzhixingshi，fashenglebijiaodadebianhua。hexindeguanjian，wojuedezaiyuzheigezuzhixingshicongyuanlaizhongxinhuadezuzhixingshibianchenglequzhongxinhuaxingshi，zaizuodegeweidouyouzijidequanhequn、fensiyehao，haoyouyehao，genyuanlaichuantongdeqingkuang，birushuo90niandaimeitifeichangzhongxinhuadezhuangtai，xiangbiwanquanbutong。neigeshihouyigepinpai，kenengjiushizaiyangshishangdayigeguanggaodajiajiudouzhidaole，wozijixiaoshihou，naozilixifashuidepinpaijiuzhiyouliangge。xianzaibushile，meitiquzhongxinhuarangmeigerenduipinpaiderenzhifashenglefeichangdadebianhua。xianzaishijiyutuijian。ercongsousuodaotuijian，youfashenglefeichangdadebianhua，suoyidandanzhibatuijianzuodehaoshijishangyenengchengweifeichangbucuodegongsi，birushuojinritoutiao。

womenshizhongrenwei，xinxiliushikuaiyushangpinliude，xinxiliudebianhuahuidaidongshangpinliubianhua。xianzaidedianshangqishiyedaolezheigeshidai，xuyaokaolvcongzhongxinhuadedianshangwangquzhongxinhuadedianshangfazhanmoshizou，zheigeyeshiwomenrenweidedashisuoqu。yinci，mengxiangyizhixiwangzaizheigedifangnengchuangzaoyixiebutongdeliuliangzuzhixingshi。danshizaizheixiesiluzhongjianyouyigedianwomenshicongshizhizhongyizhidoumeiyoubianhuaguode：dangchuchuangyewomendehexinjiushiweilekaifayigechenggongdexianshangpingtai，jinerrangyonghunenggouzaijialijiunengkaixianshangdianpu。zuikaishiwomenzuoguoyiduanshijianxianxiadegongzuo，jileilediyipizhongziyonghu，zheipizhongziyonghutamendangchudegongzuohuanjingfeichangjianku，weilegaibiantamendejiankuhuanjing，womenjiushituchuangjianwomenxianshangpingtai，zheigeshiwomenzuichuchuangyefeichangzhongyaodedian。yizhichixudaoxianzai，womendemubiaohaishizheiyang，womenxiwangnenggouquanqiulingxiandezhongbaofenxiaopingtai，ranggengduorenzaijialishixianchuangye、jiuye，kechixuxingdizhuanqian，youxiangyingdeshouru。gongyinglianzheiduanyeshiyiyang，congzuichukaishidaoxianzaiyizhidoumeiyoubianhuaguo，womenxiwangtongguowomendeshangyemoshidebianhua，huozheshuodiedai，keyirangpinpaifangnenggouyigenggaodexiaolv，gengdidechengben，zuisududebahuoxiaoshoudiao，tongshigengkuaisudehuilongzijin，zheigeshiwomencongshizhizhongyizhidaoxianzaimeiyoubianhuaguode。yinciwomentuanduifeichangpinbodehexinyuanyinshiwomenrenweizijizuodeshiqingyoushehuijiazhi。yiduankeyijiejuedaliangdepinpaifangxuyaokuaisudechuhuo、huilongzijindexuqiu；lingyiduannengjiejuehenduorenchuangyejiuyedewenti，zengjiashourulaiyuan。erzuizhongdexiaofeizheyehuiyinweixiaofeimoshidebianhua，yizuishaodeqianmaidaogaoxingjiabidehuo，womenxiwangrangzaixiaofeitonglushangdemeiyigejiaosedouyousuoshouyi，erbushiqinfanmouyifangdeliyi，rangmouyifangdeyi，zheigeshitingyoujiazhide。womenyexiwangzaizheigedaolushang，nenggoubatazuodegengda，nenggoufugaidaogengduodequnti。   

郭为中：mengxiangjituandexiangdian，qishijiushixianshangdebianlidian，meigerendoukeyichengweiyongyouquanguoyonghudeyigedianzhu，erpingtaifangrangjizheixiedianzhu10%dao15%deshouyi，pingtaizaitigongxiaoshouqudaodetongshi，yebaolanlewuliufuwu，zhengrulengzongsuoshuode，zheiqishishiyizhongsanfangdoudeyidemoshi。

冷静：xiexieguozong，yehuanyingdajialaitiyan，zuomengxiangde“dianzhu”。

郭为中：wozhidaomengxiangjituanyouyigezhuguankailezheigedianyihou，yigeyuezuodao10wandeyingyee，ranhoujiubuganle，zijiquzuodianzhuqule，zheigeyetingyouyiside。jiexialaiwomenzaiqinghezonglaifenxiangyixia。qishiwoyizhijuedenimendemingzitebieyouyisi，fuxingshihenyouwenhuadegongsi，zheigemingzigengukedelianjiedianshishenmedifang？huozheshuonimenweishenmeyongzheigemingzi？

何川：qishifenweiliangbufenyuanyinba。diyishiwomendemingziyouyigexiaochaquhexiaogushide，zuizaowomendangshishidingyilexiaohongaixingdeyingwenmingproxy，tamoweideyinjieqishijiushixingmai。weishenmedingyixiaohongaixingni？yinweixiaohongaixingshouxianshizhenggehaohanyuzhouzhongshoumingzuizhangdexingqiu；erruguoweilairenleiyouyuzhoukongjianqianyidehua，xiaohongaixingjiangshizuihoujuzhudeyigexingqiu。julidiqiuzuijindeyigexingqiujiujiaoxiaohongaixing，xingmaishitamingzidezuihouyigeyinjie。hanyulixingyeshidaibiaozheyixue，womenxiwangtongguojishudejinbutuijinyixuedeyuanyuanliuzhang，rangyiliaojishunenggougenghaodefuwulaobaixinghehuanzhe，zheigeqishiyeshiwomendangchudeyigedingweiheshexiang，yeyizhidoushigongsideshiming，tongguokejifunengdailaigenghaodeyiliaofuwu，ranglaobaixingxiangshoudaogenghaodefuwu。

zaizheigexingyezhong，womenyouliangdianzuishenkedeganshou：shouxianyiliaoqishishiyigebutaixuyaoquwajuegukedexingye，huozheshuozheishiyigetianrandegongjibuzudexingye，youqiquefaduiyouzhiyiliaoziyuandegongjibianbie、zhenghe、tigongdenengli。erzheiyiwentitongguozheiyangxindeyidaiderengongzhinengyehao，geleixiaoxinghua、zhinenghuadeyingjianyehao，dounenggouyousuogaishan。jishutigongdeqiaqiashiyouzhiziyuandeshengchanli，erqieshiyigeyijiade，yiyufuzhideshengchanlidegongji。

jutilaishuo，dangshiwomenzaijiaoliudeshihoufaxianleyigewenti：meiyinianxiangshanghai、beijingzheixiedifangzuiyouzhideyiliaoziyuandouhuiquyuanjiang、yuanzang，peiyangdangdideyiliaorencai，danshiwangwangzheixiebeipeiyangdeyishengdiyiniandeshihouzaibulage，dierniandeshihoudaolasa，disanniandeshihoudaoqinghai，manmanyouhuiliudaoneilu，hennanzhangjiudizaibianjiangdiqu，tigaobianjiangdiqudeyiliaofuwu。ertongguoxiangzheizhongsuoweidezaixian，yijizhinenghuadeaidefuwu，womenqishijiukeyidazaozhangjiudefuzhuyiliaoduidefuwu，zheishiwomenzuidadejiazhi。keyifeichanghaodedehuimin，bianjie、kuaijie、gaoxiaodilaijinxingfuwu。

dierzaiyuxingyejiazhi，congzhengtideyiliaojingjixuejiaodu，jishufazhannenggoudailaifeichanggaodejiazhi。feichangduodeyixiejibing，zaozhenzaozhizaofaxiannenggoutishengzhengtidewunianshengcunqi，zheiyangjiunengjiangdiweizheigejibingsuozhifudeyiliaofudan。qier，renlideyiliaojianceyoujingshenshangdejixiankongjian，erjishunenggoufuwudatiliangrenqun，gengkuaisude、buyipilaode，zhunquelvyebijiaopingwen。congshujushangkan，zaifuwuguochengdangzhong，zhenduimouyizhongaizhengdezaoqifaxianlvzhenggetishenglechabuduojiangjin2bei，zheijidadijiangdileyiliaozhifufeiyong。zaizheifangmian，qishiyeshiwomenbijiaohaodeyixiejiazhichuangzaohegongxian，yeshidangshiqierudaozheigexingyezuizhongxiwangfuwudegenghaodedian。

zuihou，yeshiwomenjuedeyiliaoxingyebijiaoyouyisidedian：suiranwomenshiyigechunjishuhuozheshichunkejigongsi，tianransuoyoudechanpin、liuchengdoushipaozaixianshang，danshiwomenyaoxiangnenggenghaodifuwuzheigelingyu，genghaodechuangzaojiazhi，biranhuiyuezuoyuezhong，yidinghuizouxiangqingzhongjiehedefangshi，yaoyoujishufuneng，danshizuihouhaishizhigendaozuihoudeyixiexianxiadechangjinghuozheshimoshi，conglinchuangdangzhonglai，daorenqundangzhongqu，cainengchengweiyigehaodeyiliaochanpin，cainengzhenzhengyingyongqilai，ranggengduorengongtongxiangshou。

郭为中：xiexiehezongdefenxiang， buguowulunshixingmaihaishishanzhen，haishixiwangdajiadoujinliangshaoyongtamendechanpin。dangranzheishiyigewanxiao，shenglaobingsibijingdoushibukebimiande，meigeren，yijiwomendejiaren，womendeqinpenghaoyoudouhuimianlinzheiyangdewenti。suoyi，yiliaoxingyezaixinjingjilingyudefazhanqishidoushizaixingshanshi。shanzhenzheigemingziyeshitebiehao。wuzonggangcaiyanjianyigaidebanidemengxianghemoshiliaoleyiliao，ninyijingzuolewunian，yefazhandaolegangcaishuode600duowanyonghu，zenmezuodaode？zaizheiwuniandangzhongshanzhendouzuoleshenme？

吴竑兴： womenweiraosangechangjinglaizhankai，diyigechangjing：womenmeigerendoutingdaoshenbiandepengyoushuoqiguo，najiadelaoren，faxianaizhengwanqi，turanjiuzoule；diergechangjing，henduorenmeiyouhefumuzhuzaiyiqi，yincijiarushuofumushengbing，yaobuyaohuiquzhaogu？xianzaidajiadoushisansishisuidedangdazhinian，nengqingjigeyuejiama？butaikeneng，danwomenyouhenxiwangzuodianshenme；disangechangjing，youderendeleshenmezhongbing，baxiangyaoyaobuyaoshang？yishangjiushijishiwanyigeliaocheng，zheishihouxuanminghaishixuanqian？

zaishangshusangechangjingdejichushang，womenzuodeshiqingjiushisange：diyi，dajiankangchouxiangchulaikan，wuwaihusanzhongguanxi，yufang、zhiliao、zhifu，zuizaowomenzuoyufang，jiushitijian。huanyanzhi，congmougejiaodushanglaishuo，shanzhenjiuleisiyuxiecheng，tijianzhongxinleisiyujiudian，shanzhenweirenmenduijietijianzhongxin，jiuxiangshixiechengweirenmendingweiheshidejiudianyiyang。yongzheizhongfangshiwomenxianquzuokehuleiji，rangdajiaxianzoudiyibu：tijianzhaoshanzhen，zheiyifangshirangwomenhuodelediyipiguangdadeyonghu，yinweitijianbenshenmeiyoutianhuaban，lilunshangsuoyourenmeiniandouyinggaizuoyici。

zaicijichushang，tijianhouyouxierenjiufaxianleyixiejiankangwenti，zheigeshihou，zaishanzhenhuimianfeisongniyigelvtong，birushuo301、huashanyiyuandenganpaiduiyingdezhurenyishibangzhuchulinizaitijianzhongfaxiandewenti。zheiyianpaideguochengshouxiannengquchuyonghuheyiliaozhongjiandexinxibuduicheng，ciwaihainenggoutongguoshujutigaopipeidu。yifangmianyuehaodeyiyuan，yuexiwangzhaodaoduizhengdeyonghu；lingyifangmianzaizheigeguochengzhongshanzhenyenenggoubangzhuyonghugenghaodepipeizhiliaoziyuanheyiliaoganyufangfa。

disangeshizhifu，zaizhifuhuanjie，yinweiyoulehailiangdeyonghushuju，womennenggoutuiyanchuyonghudejiankangfengxian，suoyizai2018nian，shanzhenhebaoxiangongsiyiqilianhekaifaleyigeshujufengkongmoxing，bingzaiquniantuichulezhongguodiyikuanlaonianyiliaoxian：zhuanmenzhendui60suidao80suiderenqundeyiliaobaoxiaoxingbaoxian。yiqianzheigenianlingduandelaorenbunengmaiyiliaobaoxian，chuleyiwaixian，danneigebushizhenzhengdeyiliaoxian。

zongtilaishuo，womenjibenshangjiushiyanzheyufang、ganyudaozhifudelujingzhankaishijian，hexinzhuiqiushixiwangrangdajiaxingchengyigeyishi：danfanxiangweifumujiankangzuodeshiqingdoukeyizhaoshanzhen。lingyifangmian，zaiwomenzuodeshiqingdangzhongzuizhongyaodelinianyeshixiwangtongguowomenshanzhendenuligaibianzhongguodemoshi。xianzaizhongguozuidadewentishibeidongzhiliao，jingchangduimouleijibingyifaxianjiuwanqi，zheigeshizuigenbendewenti。erruguonenggoucongbeidongzhiliaobianchengzhudongyufang，zheijiubaohanlebianchengdaliangjiegouxingdejiazhi，youjudadeshangyefazhanqianneng。erkehuduanlaishuo，womendailaidekenengshixuejianshenglisibiedailaidetongku：ruguoshanzhennenggouanzhaowomendeshexiangzuocheng，shehuiyidingshihuiyinweiwomendecunzai，shaohenduokunan，zaofaxianzaozhiliaozaoquanyu，kenenghenduojiatingyoujihuibimianzairenheqianzhijianjinxingxuanze。

郭为中：jiweichuangshirendoushizuoduirenyoulideshiqing，fanliwanggengmingxian，mingzishangjiushiduidajiayoulideshiqing。fanliwangxiangduilaishuo，lishibijiaozhang，chuangbanshinayinian？

葛永昌：2006年。

郭为中：2006niandaoxianzaiyijing14nianle，zhei14nian，nimenyoushenmebianhuama？congyikaishixiangzuode，houlaidaoxianzai，jinglileshenme？suizhedianshangfazhandailaidebianhua，fanliwangyouyoushenmeyangdebianhua？

葛永昌：queshishihenzhangshijian，fanliwangkeyishuoshijingliledianshangmeiyigejieduandefazhan。chanyemeiyiliangniandouhuiyoubuxiaodebianhua，womenjianzhenglexuduochanyeshangdexingshuaigengdie。

fanlicongmingzilaishuohaolijie，xiaofeizhemaidongxi，fanlijixiaofeizhe，bangtashengqian。xianglengzongshuode，xiaofeixingjiabishiyigefeichangqiangdadegangxing，zheigeshibubiandedongxi，jihusuoyoudianshangxingye，buguanshiwoerma、jingdong，aikucun，doushizaibangyonghushengqian。rangdajiazaimaitongyangdedongxidetongshinengyonggengdidejiageshixian。

suoyishuo，womencongyikaishidaojintianyizhimeibiandehexinlinianshibangyonghushengqian。zheigezhuiqiukenengzaiguo20nianyebuhuibian，yinweixiaofeizheduiyuxingjiabideminganduhezhuiqiu，queshishikuayueshijianzhouqideyigexuqiu，zheigeshiwomenmanxingyundedian——yinweizheishizhangqiyouxuqiudeyigelingyu。

xiaofeizhexuqiuyijiqiyepingtaifang，dianshangpingtaipinpaifang，duiyugenggaoxingjiabixuqiuyebuhuiyoubianhua。suoyizheimeduonianlai，dianshangqiqiluoluo，dansuoyoudedianshanggongsichengli、fazhandeshihou，douhuihewomenhezuo，womenduiweilaibaochibijiaohaodexinxin，zheigemoshiheyetaiyizhinengcunzaixiaqu。

erzaifazhanguochengzhonglaikan，womenzuizaodeshihouzuodeshipc，houlaidaoyidongduan，suiranguochengzhongyoubozhe，danzhengtizhuanxingguochenghaishibijiaoshunli。buguodaolejintian，womenqishibingbunenganyuxianzhuang，xinjishuhexinjingjidailailegengdadetiaozhan：xianzaidexiaofeizhemianduizheshejiaodianshangjueqidailaidequzhongxinhuadequshi，henduodekehu、pinpaifang，huokebuzaitongguomeiti，kenengshitongguoshejiaoguanxilaihuodekehu。huanyanzhi，xianzaizaiqunli，douyinlisuishisuidinengkandaoyigegouwudechangjing，zheibudanduiwomen，duiyuzhongxinhuadepingtai，buguanshitaobaohaishijingdongyedoushitiaozhan。suoyifanliwangyifangmianguranbijiaoxingyun，zuodeshifeichanggangxudeshiqing，dantongshiwomenyeshizhongzaijiejuetiaozhandailaidekunjing，meiguoyiliangnianzhenggeshichanghuanjingdouhuiyouhendadebianhua，womenqiyezenmenengqushiyingbianhua，zaizheizhongbianhuafashengdeshihouruhezhuadaojihuizaiquchuangzaojiazhi，zheixieshishizhongyaosikaodewenti。

yeyinci，fanliwanghendadetourudoushizaitishengtuanduideyunyingnengli，baokuobuzhuoshichangbianhuanengli，baokuoxiangwomensuoshuodeliuliangdebianhua，xiaofeizhexingwei、xuqiudebianhua，shenzhishixiaofeichangjingbianhua。zheixiebianhuaruguozhuabuzhudehua，henkuaihuibeitaotai，kenengyinianjiubucunzaile——zheiyeshihulianwangxingyecankudedifang，ruguobubaochizaiyigelingxianweizhi，kenengyiliangnianjiuchedixiaoshi，yinweibianhuataikuaiyetaiduole。xianzaidianshangqiangdiaoxianshangxianxiaderonghe，daojia、daodianfuwuzhuabuzhudehua，hennanyouxindeweilai。ciwai，zhibodaogoujueqiyeshiyizhongtiaozhan，xiaofeizhegouwuwuhuabamenyehennanquyuce。yincizhinengshuozuoweichuangyezhe，bawozhudangxiashijifahuichuzijihaodezhuangtai，youzijidedutejingzhengli，cainengchixufazhanxiaqu。

郭为中：xiexiegezong，gangcaigezongyetidaobianyububian，wozijiyemanyoutihuide，genyixiebijiaochuantongdeqiyejiabi，xinjingjishidaideqiyejia，chuangyeren，nianqingshiyidingde。dier，zuimingxiandeshi，tamenxueligenggao，zheigeshibijiaomingxiande，bingqie，yuanlaidepinpailejiexiaofeizheshipaoshichang、qudaoqulejie，errujinshitongguoxianshangqulianjiexiaofeizhe，zheigequdaobushiyiyangde：yuanlaishishidiluxian，xianzaishitongguohulianwang，yougenghaodefangfa，tongguoyixieshujufenxi，tongguoliuliangdetongjijinxingkaocha。danwanbianbuliqizong，duisuoweidebianyububian，yaozongninzenmekan？

姚荣君：wodaojuede，yousheiqupaipaiqianlangqiyejiamendegushihenzhongyao。guoqumopagundachengzhangqilaidechuantongqiyejiatamenbudanyouerdai，yousandai，yeyouxiyinwaiziqiyejinlaideziben，tamenfeichangkeku，zaishijianzhonglilianshenjingbaizhan，suoyitebiezhidewomenquxuexi。

郭为中：以理论论英雄。

姚荣君：shide，huozhejiushishuo，chuantonghedangxiageyouqiangdedifang，duiyuxinjingjiqiyelaishuo，tamendandangyifengengdadeshehuizeren：baokuoshanzhenhexingmaikejiguanzhuqunzhongdejiankangheyiliaowenti，mengxiangtigongdegengduodejiuyejihuihefazhankongjian，fanliwang14nianjujiaogenghaodexingjiabi，ranglijiyonghu，zheixiedoushifeichanghaodebubiandezhuiqiu。

buguo，wogerenhaishijuede，qishiqiyeneixindeshangengukeneixindezhenxuyaolianjie，lianjieqilaichuangyedemeigancaizhenzhenghuichulai，ergukedeneixin，shitebiexuyaowomenqubuzhuode。birushuoganggangjiangdaodexingjiabi，dangranyaoquzhuiqiu，weiyonghuquchuangzao。danshixingjiabidezhuiqiubushiyigekongkoutandeci，shenmejiaoxingjiabi？yizhifanlikenengfanerhaibunengdedaoxingjiabi，xingjiabiqishishizhifuyiyuangenjiagezhijiandeguanxi，huanyanzhiyekeyilijieweixiaofeizheduipinpaiderenzhi，suoyizaizheigeweidushang，womenbixudebaochigukeduipinpaiderenzhi。

jutianlilaishuo，pingguoxuyaotongguoyiersanjijingxiaoshangcaimaidao，suoyijiagehuifeichanggui。danshixiaomibazheigefansuodeguochengtongguohulianwangjiejuele，yinciyixiazijiudakaileshichang。wojuedezheiyangdexianxiangshitebieduode，baokuojintiandepinduoduoyeshiyiyangdedaoli，renzhijiazhibaxingjiabijiduchulai，daowozheililaimaihuowushiyiyangde，pinpaiyiyang，danshibianyi，weishenme？pinchulaide。

suoyiwomenxuyaokandao，zenmequgaorenzhijiazhi，xianzaixianshangliulianghuokechengbenbixianxiadougao，ruguojixutourudehua，yongyuanzhuibudaotou。worenweizaibianyububianzhongpinpaijiazhi，shibaozhangnizheifenshiyejixuqianxingdehexin，yaodaizhezhanlvechuchang。suoyijintiandexinjingjipinpaibunengzhiyonglaodeqiyeduigukezhendelianjiefangshi，gengyaowangjiazhifangmianqudiaokehao。yidanjiehehao，woxiangxinqiyeyidingnengshixianhenhaodefazhan。lingwai，pinpaizheigedongxi，bushishuoxiaoshouhenduohenhao，xingjiabijiunengzuohao，wogengeweifenxiangdeshi，pinpaichulai，jiazhibeirenjiarenzhigengduo，nideshancainengbeiguangbotianxia，gengduorenyongnidepingtaijiejuelezheimeduodewenti，cainengbeirenzhi，wojuedezheiyeshiyizhongshan，nidemudebingbushiweileyingxiao，bushishengyi，ershinenggoubeidazhongsuoshiyongheyunyong，zheigeshiwomenchuangyejiadeyigezuizhongyaozhaodaodeguisu，yeshigeweideshiming，womenjunzhizixunyejiangzaizheitiaolushangzhulidajia。

郭为中：yaolaoshishuodehenhao。zuihou，qing5weitaishangdejiabin，geziyongyijuhua，shuoshuozijiqiyedeyuanjinghuojiazhiguan。

冷静：womendeyuanjingshixiwangdazaoquanqiulingxiandezhongbaofenxiaopingtai，buguanshichanpinhaishixitong，huozheshuofuwu，huozheshigefangmian，douzaiweiraozhebduanhexinzuofunengtisheng，tigaoxiaolv，zengjiaxinren；erwomendeshimingshitongguowomensuoyourendenulirangchengjiaobianjiandan，chengjiutarendezheigejuexinshizhongmeiyoubianguo。  

何川：qishiwomendeyuanjingyeshibingchengzhenggejituandeyuanjing，xiwangyongaidengxinjishutishengyonghudejiankangshenghuo，rangaifuneng，tigong10yijiankangjiatingxingfudejiejuefangan。

吴竑兴：shanzhenxiwangbangzhudajiajiejuefumujiankangfangmiandesuoyoushiqing，yinweiwomendecunzai，rangdajiadefumubiandegengjiankang。yijuhua，fumujiankangzhaoshanzhen。

葛永昌：fanligengjiandan，buguanshishiminghaishiyuanjing，doushibangzhuyonghushengqian，danyezaibangyonghushengqiandetongshiguanzhuyonghutiyan，tigongzhilianggenghaodedongxi。fanlishizhongjiangzaibangyonghushengqianzheitiaolujinxingdaodi，yehuixiwanggenshanghaidehulianwangqiyeyougengduodehezuo。

姚荣君：womendeyuanjingshizhuligengduodepinpaifazhan，xiwangyougengduozhongguozhizaozouxiangchuangzao，zouxiangzhenzhengdezhongguopinpai，xiangyuquanqiu，shixianzaizhongguojingjifazhancongguoneidaoshijiedequanqiuhuafazhan。tongshiwomenyeyongqiaodongdaxuedefangshi，bawomensuozuodedoushuochulai，doufenxiangchulai，rangdajiakankanwomenshizenmecaozuode，zhanlveshizenmezhidingde，yicikeyibimianshehuiziyuanzhongfujianshe、tongzhihuajingzhengdaozhidelangfei：xianzaidouzaijiangjieyue，womenshiqiyejieyue，shehuijieyue。

郭为中：haode，xiexieyaozong。womenjintianzheigexiaoyuanzhuojiujinxingdaozheili，yiyouweijin，dajiazaitaixiayekeyijixutaolun，jixunaodongdakai，jixulaifenxiang，xiexiegewei。